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Behind the Curtain by Living Opera
Behind the Curtain, hosted by soprano Soula Parassidis and tenor Norman Reinhardt at the beautiful Hotel Bristol in Vienna, is a video podcast by Living Opera that takes listeners beyond the grand performances and into the heart of opera. Through candid, thought-provoking conversations, the podcast reveals insights that transcend the stage, exploring universal themes such as personal growth, leadership, and perseverance. Whether you're a seasoned opera enthusiast or simply curious about how artistry intersects with everyday life, Behind the Curtain offers a unique perspective that bridges the world of performance with real-world challenges and experiences. Watch the video version of this podcast on Living Opera's Facebook and YouTube Channels.
Behind the Curtain by Living Opera
Future-Proofing Opera and Classical Music
This episode centers on the concept of future-proofing in the arts, exploring the grim employment statistics facing musicians and the need for adaptability and innovation. The discussion emphasizes mentorship, personal branding, and proactive roles for artists to reshape their futures in an evolving landscape.
• Exploring the concept of future-proofing and its relevance to opera
• Analyzing employment growth trends in the arts sector
• Discussing the disconnect between education and real-world demands
• Highlighting the significance of mentorship and networking opportunities
• Emphasizing the importance of personal branding in the digital age
• Encouraging artists to take proactive steps in shaping their careers
• Addressing the optimism and potential for growth despite challenges
This episode is hosted by Soula Parassidis and Christos Makridis.
The Behind the Curtain Podcast is hosted by Soprano Soula Parassidis and Tenor Norman Reinhardt. Follow Living Opera on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and Website.
Watch A VIDEO version of this podcast on Living Opera's Facebook or YouTube Channels.
Hello everybody and welcome to Behind the Curtain. I'm Soula Parassidis and I'm Christos Makridis and we make up two-thirds of the Living Opera team, and today we're going to be talking about something that I have not heard a lot about in the opera sector Neither have I, but that's a concept called future-proofing and it's something that I had never heard of until we started building Living Opera and really thinking about strategy and how to effectively grow our sector.
Soula Parassidis:So I'm going to need you, as someone who's gone to business school and learned all the jargon and all the words that I was like after our many, many meetings, like what does that mean? What's B2B? What the heck? What are they saying? Yeah, yeah.
Christos Makridis:That's like the first semester is just learning all the taxonomy. Yeah, it's just like here is 5,000 different words. Now let's have some synergy in this session.
Soula Parassidis:Some synergy.
Christos Makridis:We're already getting it.
Christos Makridis:No, but I would just love for you to speak a little bit about that concept and then we can dive into, maybe, how it applies to classical music and the arts sector in general, yeah, no, and I think, as a backdrop of this, so many times we fail to engage in something that we just don't know as much about, and so it might be that there's certain language that is deterring us from entering into a field, and it really isn't that big of a barrier. It's easy to learn. It's much harder to learn how to read a score of music than it is to learn?
Soula Parassidis:I think so.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, I agree, so so anyways just kind of as context. A lot of times in business the initial question that somebody is asking is around how is something going to make enough profit in order to continue operations?
Soula Parassidis:So is that basically the bottom line?
Christos Makridis:That is the bottom line.
Soula Parassidis:Like it's a show me the money moment.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, and you know what Bottom line? This is a freebie for everybody that's listening. Bottom line is also a key word in business. What is the bottom?
Soula Parassidis:line. Oh my gosh. We basically went to Wharton.
Christos Makridis:This is basically, yeah, exactly A double dividend of knowledge here. So some research I was doing as we were kind of preparing for this are a bunch of statistics that I think are going to set the tone for the discussion that we're going to have. Great, so I'm just going to enumerate a couple of facts and then I'm going to ask you a question. But let's noodle on these for just a second. Three sets of facts.
Soula Parassidis:Wait, wait. Are we going to be happy about these facts?
Christos Makridis:We're going to come out of this discussion happy, but we're going to enter into a period of about one minute. That is a little bit difficult. Cool, all right. So hold on to your seats. So every year, the Bureau of Labor Statistics puts out new data on employment and wages, and actually they have a decadal forecast where they simulate what employment is going to be in every industry and every occupation.
Soula Parassidis:Sorry, but what does that mean?
Christos Makridis:So the Bureau of Labor Statistics has a mandate by the federal government and they have to provide accessible statistics and information about what is happening in every occupation, and so every occupation is defined by something called a standard occupational classification. Opera singers get lumped together with other musicians and composers and just like a broader category, so there isn't actually an occupational code specifically for opera singers, performing artists. It's actually funny At the beginning. When you look at the data on the BLS, it shows baritones first. It's like that's the Really.
Soula Parassidis:And then like, yeah, get a baritone, it's your moment to shine I think the baritones lobbied really hard with the BLS.
Christos Makridis:the baritones lobbied really hard with the BLS. So fact number one is just about the employment forecast between 2022 and 2032. So over the next 10 years, how many more jobs are likely to be created? So, among music directors and composers, it's 1.1%. So only a 1.1% increase in employment over the next decade. For actors 3.2%. For singers, musicians, baritones 1.2%. And the actual numbers because those are percents is going from 173.5 hundred thousand to 175,600.
Soula Parassidis:Sorry, I have a question.
Christos Makridis:So, okay, go ahead.
Soula Parassidis:Just sorry, because you're talking about growth.
Christos Makridis:Employment growth.
Soula Parassidis:Employment growth. So like what is a normal, so to speak, statistic for growth in a sector. What's considered good, what's considered like. You look at the numbers and go, oh, that's good, what a healthy sector. Yeah, I'm supposing 1.1% isn't an A-plus situation.
Christos Makridis:That's not healthy. So can you just give us a ballpark? We're going to learn why it's not healthy and I apologize.
Soula Parassidis:I don't want to bust your roll.
Christos Makridis:No, this is good we're just elongating the one minute of not so good information.
Soula Parassidis:Oh sorry, oh shit, I don't want to do that, that's okay.
Christos Makridis:We're going to come out better on the other end Okay, great. So the average. I'm not saying that the average is necessarily what's good, but the average is around 4%. So we're doing quite poor in terms of employment growth projections here. But you might have other sectors that are like 10%. In areas of data science it might be 10% growth over the next—. Computers. Yeah. Now there's some parts. I mean I saw that data entry specialists it's like negative 26%.
Soula Parassidis:Why? Because of Chachapiti.
Christos Makridis:Oh, I mean things like I'm just joking, yeah, but I mean that is true. But it's also just like data entry has become a lot less. It's kind of like a bank teller. It's just like back 20 years ago, but now it's just a lot less. So Chachapiti.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, basically, basically, and versions of it, so, versions of it. So, fact number two this is actually more just like an anomaly that made me think, huh, so the highest paying locations for visual and performing arts are places that I don't, I haven't really heard. Well, I mean, you've heard of the states. So Panola Tate, cahoma, missouri, it's a, I think, a county, the area of southeast Arkansas and Hialeah City in south central Florida.
Soula Parassidis:Okay, hang on a second, Hialeah City. I wonder if that's near Orlando. Is that near like Disney maybe? Could be, we should have gotten the map up before we had this discussion.
Christos Makridis:We needed to have some props, some geospatial props.
Soula Parassidis:Do you think? I mean not to go off topic too much, but do you think there could just be? I mean, we know Taylor Swift lives in Nashville, right, but I mean, could there be someone like a Taylor Swift living there? Like skewing the data somehow.
Christos Makridis:Well, I mean, this is actually a funny question because with survey data it's hard to. When the government is doing surveys, the quality of the survey is only as strong as the people that are responding to it.
Christos Makridis:So Taylor is probably not responding to the survey from the government she's not Okay, but some people are responding to the survey. But it does raise a broader question of what are the spillover effects associated with having, like, a Disney World and parks and that sort of stuff, because it does generate spillover to the local economy. And then the third thing I wanted to kind of end on is some information about degrees awarded. So in 2021, there were nearly a little over 11,000 degrees awarded in visual and performing arts, and the median out-of-state tuition is about $38,000. And so what I think?
Christos Makridis:So, basically, what we're learning from just these statistics is number one, there's very little employment forecasted. Number two, the places that actually are paying the highest wages appear to be not like New York City and kind of the places that you would think about for the arts. And number three is just the sheer magnitude of degrees that are being awarded, of degrees that are being awarded. And so what I wanted to think about is, when you reflect on, like this, personal experiences and all the people that you've talked with, two questions. Number one is how does this line up with what people are taught when they're going through educational programs about the availability of jobs and then second where to find opportunity.
Soula Parassidis:Okay, hang on. So, oh, my goodness. First of all, we have to digest everything you've said. Of course, this is for the United States.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, that's an important caveat. Thank you, because we are a worldwide community. Shout out to.
Soula Parassidis:Living Opera community around the world and I would love to get data on Europe as well. Yes, please give us your data. Give it to us.
Christos Makridis:It's just less readily available because there's not the same organizing body like this industry. Are you sure there's not? Well, I mean, european Commission and OECD have data. Oecd has good data at an industry level, but it's not the same as an occupational level, and so to actually understand the lives of opera singers, you want to go down to the occupation. I see, because it's more of a job, not as much.
Soula Parassidis:So it sounds like another project for Living Opera to put in a queue.
Christos Makridis:It's definitely another project. I mean, it's actually something that I was talking with the OECD about when I was there.
Soula Parassidis:If somebody has millions of dollars they would like to give to us to accomplish these tasks. Please email us. Hello at livingoperaorg.
Christos Makridis:We've got the supply of ideas that sentence sounded really expensive.
Soula Parassidis:Can you actually talk about that? I'm going to answer your questions, but just the data gathering process is extremely expensive. I don't know if people actually know that that's partly why we don't have relevant data on the lives of artists at a high level because of how much it costs to do a survey.
Christos Makridis:So there's generally two ways that social scientists and economists go about collecting data. One is data that is sort of well. Actually, I should say three ways. One is administrative data, so tax records. People are forced to provide certain data to regulatory bodies, to agencies, et cetera, and so getting access to administrative data is not easy for a researcher, and for arguably a good reason, because it's privacy protected. And so in the United States, there's an application process with the census where you go through what's called sworn access status, and then you have to go into what's called a research data center, an RDC. It's basically like this room with no windows and you can't take anything into it and you can't take anything out. I mean, everything has to be cleared. So that's number one. Number two is transaction-level data. This is where a bank is tracking transactions. This is a very ripe area for research, and indeed some of the research that I do is with these sorts of entities. It's also a challenging one, because banks and other digital intermediaries have to be transparent about how they're using consumer data, and so that is another big topic for a future conversation.
Christos Makridis:And number three is surveys. So surveys are probably the easiest to get a hold of, because, I mean an individual is responding to it, it's clear that that response is going to be shared or analyzed, et cetera, and the individual's actual name and all that sort of information isn't included. It's anonymized. But survey data is very difficult to get right, because who is responding to the survey? And in most surveys you get less than 10% response rates. And so the work that I've done with Gallup, for example, that is very expensive because they have to tailor their survey method to each country that they're doing work. In Some countries it's going to be better face-to-face, some it's going to be better via the phone and some it's more web.
Christos Makridis:But it costs millions of dollars to do nationally representative surveys. And even federal governments, like the Bureau of Labor Statistics, they've had a massive problem with attrition. They're struggling just to get 30% response rates, and this is the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the United States. So, all in all, it's very difficult to get good survey data and good data in general. It's expensive, and so what we've been trying to do within the Living Opera community, I think, is just take the experiences that people are sharing, but we need a way to systematize it. We also need a way to make sure how representative of? Is it because the people that respond? It's great, but we also need to understand who is responding so that we can make conclusions at a nationally representative level, instead of just a kind of like a voluntary basis where, if you get like these 10 people, these 10 people, how do you know that it's nationally represented?
Soula Parassidis:So that's a brief aside on just the complexity of research. No, and that's what I just thought was really important for the community. Anybody watching this to learn. It's what I've learned behind the scenes, watching you work.
Christos Makridis:Behind the scenes and behind the curtain.
Soula Parassidis:Oh my gosh. Yes, let's just have a little plug right now for the Bristol Vienna.
Christos Makridis:Look at these beautiful chocolates. I do want to thank.
Soula Parassidis:Bristol, vienna, for allowing us to use this beautiful space and for being such an encouragement to us for the beautiful truffles and chocolates that we'll enjoy at the end of the session. Thank you so much. Do stay here, it's magical and across in the State Opera.
Christos Makridis:Back to the questions.
Soula Parassidis:Yes, so I've been avoiding your question a little bit because I was like, oh my gosh, how am I going to answer?
Christos Makridis:this. What am I going to say?
Soula Parassidis:But no, no, no, no, I mean so, first of all, you know. So how can a school provide completely comprehensive education when it's their responsibility, first and foremost, to help you train as an artist? So I would say that, generally speaking, these questions don't come up in a degree program, because that's not the point of a performance degree. The point of a performance degree is to help you prepare to be a performer.
Christos Makridis:However, a performer can only be sustained this is again where it comes back to. The bottom line is a performer can only be a performer if there's enough income to actually continue operations.
Soula Parassidis:Yes, so it's challenging because I guess there's sort of like a bit of a broken feedback loop insofar as how things work in higher education I guess. I mean I have a bachelor's degree from the University of British Columbia. I do remember begrudgingly at that time taking some classes on like this is how to build a website. I mean we actually had a bit of that training.
Christos Makridis:That's really good.
Soula Parassidis:Shout out to Dr Bob Pritchard for making us do that.
Christos Makridis:God bless you Building a website.
Soula Parassidis:Yes.
Christos Makridis:They didn't even do that in my business degree program.
Soula Parassidis:Well, they figured you'd outsource that to somebody with an art school, I guess, but anyway, no, I think that they're really in a bind because the business is constantly changing and I don't fully know how a degree program, even within four years, can systematically train somebody for the complexity of a business that's constantly changing. Because the thing is, with every budget that comes out from every opera house or every government for the opera house or however it works, or whatever donors are giving in privately funded opera companies, that means the story changes every year.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, well, I want to dig deeper into this because I know from our prior conversations it is as you said, it's a structural challenge, and so every business is always changing. So I think it's important within the arts not to think of it's just us like that. We're unique Because, I mean, things are changing much more rapidly in computer science, for example, where the new language models that are coming out or a new startup enters the scene, and so other sectors are changing much more rapidly, and so I think one of the things that distinguished your career was that you got some undergraduate education, but then you went out and you actually just immersed yourself into a totally new environment. So maybe talk a little bit about how, when you went out and you actually just immersed yourself into a totally new environment. So maybe talk a little bit about how, when you went to like a place where you didn't speak the language, when you went to Germany like just you were bombarded with all these new forces.
Christos Makridis:How did you adapt to that?
Soula Parassidis:Yeah, I mean that's not a model that I would necessarily recommend for everybody, because it takes a very specific kind of personality to want to put yourself, get cancer and then don't go into a completely new, yes, don't do that first part. No, if you can help it. No, I saw that I had massive knowledge gaps, but not to the fault of my degree program, because I was, like, pretty proficient at singing. Yeah.
Soula Parassidis:I had the major disturbance in my personal life that I did have this issue with cancer, and so what do you do with that? But nevertheless, I mean having cancer affected my body, not my mind. Yeah. So I could still.
Christos Makridis:But it still had. I mean, the thing is, you still had to tell yourself like I'm getting through this.
Soula Parassidis:Oh sure, I mean that's yeah, I had to develop a kind of a resilience.
Christos Makridis:Mental resilience yeah.
Soula Parassidis:To push through, but that's got less to do with my, my skills and how I built the career. Um, I mean, that's a factor of my personality. So, um, one of the things I just noticed was the business that I was prepared for wasn't the business that I was entering. So how, how could I put myself in closer proximity to the business that I wanted to dedicate my life to? Um, you know, that was kind of a scary decision because, as you said, when I went to Germany, I didn't speak the language, I didn't know a lot of people and I was suddenly thrust into a world where you're expected to operate at the highest levels of professionalism and not have any problems.
Christos Makridis:And I mean that's true for everybody.
Soula Parassidis:That's not unique, that's not unique.
Christos Makridis:Well, I mean I think it's more demanded in the arts, I mean many times because there's internships within the business community and so somebody can be an intern or somebody can be whatever at a company, a hospital, whatever it might be, and there's scope for, there's mentorship and in your case you're on the stage and people are expecting a level of quality. So I think it's a little trickier in your case, if I might say.
Soula Parassidis:I suppose I mean so for me, because I did my training in North America. But then I went to Europe and I said, ok, this is a very different world. How am I going to fit into this world and how am I going to get marketable skills for this world? Because, just because of the sheer size of the opera houses in North America, one of the things that I was super focused on was how loud can I make my voice to fill up this opera house?
Soula Parassidis:And then I realized in Europe you were expected to, in one sense, to be trained as a total package for the art form, and I didn't feel like I had that total package. I didn't have the proficiency in languages that I needed, I didn't understand stagecraft. So I started working right away with, you know, several German directors, and the physicality that I needed to come with it was just astounding. So I was like singing on my back, singing upside down, literally upside down singing. Yeah, yeah, I was like, you know, singing, like singing, you know, in the back of the stage in a glass box. I don't know. You just do so many different things.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, things that you're never told about. Yeah, yeah, you know singing while pretending you're in a gas chamber.
Soula Parassidis:It's like okay, wow, I wasn't thinking about that when I was trying to learn how to sing in IC. So that was a little bit of you know on the ground surprise, but I think being adaptable is a skill that we need, no matter what sector that we're in, as you were saying technology is changing all the time and developing all the time, but I think the number one step for me to develop and actually get my first jobs was humility.
Soula Parassidis:I just needed to admit what I didn't know and then start asking the relevant questions and coupling that with the how do you say when you're young, you have to have this element of fearlessness. I mean, I think, technically, to be on stage you always have to have an element of fearlessness to do that.
Soula Parassidis:But I think that's what helped me. Just to make those forward movements was just to ask the question, stay humble. I didn't always succeed in that, because sometimes when I felt fear, I would actually mask that with some sort of a bravado that wasn't any way real. But I don't want to get too off topic with that.
Christos Makridis:Well, I mean, I think the point that you're making is that there's a sort of personality, trait or a level of mental mindset that is also required to do the job well. So then, the question for the sector from a pedagogical perspective is how do you inculcate that habit? And so many programs focus on the knowledge and they don't focus as much on what environments are going to cultivate that habit. And being kind of thrust into an unanticipated, sometimes uncomfortable environment can build that habit. And being kind of thrust into an unanticipated, sometimes uncomfortable environment can build that habit. And so I mean, maybe to throw the ball back to you is around. How do we as a profession I mean I say we because I'm not an artist by trade, but now I've been grafted into the arts and culture sector.
Christos Makridis:How does our community change the pedagogy so that there is this combination of practitioner and like actual, like the voice technique? Because it can't just be all voice technique, it also has to be like hey, you're going to have to be uncomfortable in these ways and you need to get practice doing it.
Soula Parassidis:Right. Well, I think there's several things that could, or maybe even should happen. I know that some positions are being created. They're sort of called like artists in residence, so to speak, where you do have a practitioner come in and I think the tradeoff there is that person gets some stable income. But they're also meant because they have, I guess, sort of a name or a brand. They attract certain high-level students to come to the institution and it's a feedback loop from the industry to the institution, so there's more on-the-ground information about what's actually going on.
Soula Parassidis:One thing I wanted to mention, though, is I think it's almost impossible for schools, or Hochschule, or whatever, to fully prepare an artist, because the thing is, opera works differently in Austria, as it does in France, as it does in Italy. Yeah, or we and. I sang in China, and that was a totally different thing as well.
Christos Makridis:So what are?
Soula Parassidis:they supposed to do, Because you're basically preparing an artist for an international market, and I think that's partly why the focus is on the craft, so to speak because, at least good singing should be universally celebrated and a commonality in every program.
Soula Parassidis:But what we're talking about, I suppose, is preparing someone to be completely prepared in every market, and that only happens by experience or having some sort of synergy with artists who are willing to also give their time to bring up the next generation. And most of the time people are just too busy or too stressed or there is no inroad. I mean, before social media, we had no way to speak directly to this audience and we didn't, so it was just all kind of privately done or we had a coffee here, a coffee there.
Soula Parassidis:We couldn't do it at scale, kind of privately done, or we had a coffee here, a coffee there. We couldn't do it at scale. And so I don't know, I mean I would love for I mean just us to have more institutional support and to work with institutions and sort of help mold and shape the future of the educational offerings. But that's also really challenging because there has to be, you know, a friendly face in every institution. You know, actually we can do better. We want to do better for our students.
Soula Parassidis:And then the other part is I suppose I don't want to be controversial here, but students have to demand it, they have to say we are not being prepared. And the thing is, when I go into the comments section of any of our living opera platforms, inevitably I'm seeing like why did I learn this in school? Oh my gosh. I'm in debt and I didn't even learn. You know, I learned more from one Instagram post than I learned in four years. I mean, it's just, it's to me it's kind of shocking, so um.
Christos Makridis:No, I mean, it's like there definitely is a demand for it, there's a hunger for it, and that is evidenced by the fact that these labor market outcomes have been deteriorating for so long and people are saying something about it. I think that there's two key points here. One is that there is, first of all, so there's definitely a problem, but there's also definitely a solution. There needs to be a sort of marriage between practitioners and pedagogues, and institutions are a clearinghouse for allowing that collaboration to happen, and so they can't exist without the other. The practitioners need a healthy community that's educating the next generation, and they also most people at their core.
Christos Makridis:Some people, I think, harden their hearts and they become bitter over time and they become selfish and they don't want to give but like, and that's not good. But I'd say most people probably want to help other people and give, and that's something that you really emphasize on the Instagram channel and you've shown by example that and you just give, you give without an expectation of return. And then the second thing is that institutions need to want to come together, and what is so sometimes like just I mean annoying and just like kind of confusing, is institutions that I mean like they're not doing innovative work. It's like you want to focus on journal articles. You're not even putting out any journal articles. Your research is low quality.
Soula Parassidis:Sounds like it's getting like really personal for you.
Christos Makridis:It's personal for all of us.
Christos Makridis:And we just care about the sector being what it can be, and so I think at the core, the recommendation is practitioners need to work with institutions, and then there needs to be a demand and a hunger for that mentorship and that mentorship that I mean. It can always be better, but you had some of it and you found people. Maybe actually this is something that I know you've said on the Living Opera platform before, but remind listeners about some of the mentorship and partnership that you had early in your career that was so instrumental in that development.
Soula Parassidis:Yeah, I mean it's really interesting because if you talk to somebody who's had a measure of success in any field, they'll talk about that moment when they were in the right place at the right time, saying and doing like the right things with the right people, right. So that's definitely my story and I think any honest person would say that they've had some help. I I the idea of like being completely self-made just isn't real, like, yeah, that just totally discounts people who helped you along the way.
Soula Parassidis:So, um, all interdependent yeah, yeah, but you've got to find the right people, because if you're sort of planting your seeds in the wrong garden, you know it won't grow.
Soula Parassidis:So I did some of that and I sought out mentorship. I had done a master class with a really famous person and thought that was going to be the right you know garden to grow my keeping with the metaphor, you know, the seeds of my career, you know. But it turned out to be absolutely wrong, absolutely wrong and but it was a hard. I got a hard redirect and I think I always see sort of like that providential hand in my life like hard redirect, like oh God, okay, and I ended up with the right people. So early on I was. I was mentored for a little while by Brigitte Fassbender, who was just such an amazing artist and whenever I still sing in my chest register, for example, I'm always thinking about her.
Soula Parassidis:I'm like, oh God, she's so great. I got to work with Karen Armstrong, who is such an amazing actress and singer, and I got to work with Cheryl Studer, and I think Cheryl was so instrumental for me because I really didn't know what to do next. And we had this lesson. I don't know if Cheryl's going to see this or if she remembers, but we had this lesson and I said, yeah, I think I'm going to come take a master's with you. And she was like Soula, you're basically ready to do this job. You actually just don't know what steps to take next and I do not recommend that you take a master's with me. And I was like she's right, I don't know what to do next. Oh my God, what do I do? What do I do with my life?
Soula Parassidis:And so that push we had to get that information, then no but that push was so needed and I would have missed my next if she hadn't just said you know, you're just afraid because you don't know where to go and what to do. Which?
Christos Makridis:actually comes back to the other result that we have around the artists that take master's programs earn less than the artists that don't have a master's degree, which is, but that's exactly it is that so many times we go for more education as the rule for what to do if we don't know what to do. Yeah.
Christos Makridis:And so for you it was. The thing is that I really want to stress this part of you're not going to. Every person you run into isn't going to be a destiny builder for you, but that's okay. You just move on so you don't like carry that baggage or don't feel like that's some sort of like you have to have that contract with the person forever. Just move on and so you will find people that are great to build I mean even just your like our friendship.
Christos Makridis:I wouldn't be working in arts and culture, I wouldn't be doing any research in that space, I wouldn't be doing anything in practice in that space if it wasn't for that catalyst. And so I think the key lesson is like, if your school isn't providing these opportunities, you need to go search it out, and no school can be responsible for everything, but they should at least put the, they should at least create more opportunities to to like go out and for mentorship and for connecting and networks and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, I mean that's what we're trying to do within Living Opera is like connect people, build a community through the masterclasses, through the Instagram channel, through the podcast series, is just any any touch point that can be created so that we can find destiny helpers and knowledge distribution. That's going to be a good thing.
Soula Parassidis:Yeah, I totally agree with that, and I think, um, you know, we had a meeting the other day. That was, I kind of felt, put on the spot, because this wasn't what the meeting was about. They just asked me so what is the future of opera over the next five to ten years? And I was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to say? And so I took a beat and thought about it and said a couple of things that we got on film and on the audio.
Soula Parassidis:Today is just about sort of a call to action to artists to not to wait. One of the things I really love about our community is I see people developing their own projects, you know, their own side businesses, their own festivals, their own blogs, youtube channels, whatever it is and building their personal brand, and I think the building of that personal brand is so crucial for artists, whatever that looks like, and it's so available. I mean, I'm sorry, but even 10 years ago, you know, most people didn't have a smartphone and so it was impossible to even think this way. But now we don't have to wait and the thing is, in the past people were still building personal brands, but I guess some of the legwork was being done, or it seemed like it was being done for the artist, and I guess that sort of seems like a luxury position, but I would say it's not necessarily something completely aspirational, because you want to have a say over what's attached to your name, over the visual appeal of your brand and what you do, the thought leadership around your brand, and you want to have some thought leadership.
Soula Parassidis:If you are ever in the position to have your own platform, which, in one sense, you know, if you even have 100 followers on social media, you're influencing 100 people potentially that's like potentially, potentially, lord, that's a good amount of people. Now think about the thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and even millions. Well, my goodness, you want to make sure that you have a stake in that and you are directing it in the way that you want, because you can truly influence the future of the sector from your phone, from your pocket. I mean, it's crazy to think about. So that's something that I really want to emphasize here, because, specifically, this channel really is for the community.
Soula Parassidis:Just to think about what do you want to say and who do you want to impact and make it about other people. It's marvelous to tell our personal anecdotes and talk about how we overcame it, and we want that. I mean, that's valid content, that's like the testimony of our lives. But think about other people and how you're going to inspire them and sort of build them up to the point that they can do it for themselves. That's really a higher place and that's what we're always hoping to create. And we see the state of our sector. We see the lack of growth. It doesn't have to stay like that. That's the thing that I think is so funny about getting facts, numbers, figures, statistics. We don't have to stay there. We absolutely don't have to. And if every person who would hear this episode would say you know what?
Christos Makridis:today, I'm just going to choose to be the growth, the growth that we need and choose to be the anomaly that pushes the boundaries, because, yeah, I mean that's the biggest. I think problem with this area of data science and statistics is that it can become too much of just saying what has happened and not enough of what can happen down the road.
Soula Parassidis:Well, you're talking about basically what I like to call the truth versus the facts. The facts right now is that we're at 1% growth. The truth is that we're limitless and we can actually make a difference, but we have to choose to be the difference. And so one person would say the audacity to be here, film this, say this and do this. I'm like, yes, be audacious, have the audacity to do something like that, but make sure it's quality when you do it. Yeah, you know.
Soula Parassidis:I think that people can always tell the heart behind something and we have to be. This is that people don't find what we do sympathetic anymore. Sorry, like there is a stereotype about opera singers, about what we do, about our profession, and they need to put a face to this profession and it can't be this fake, stereotypical nonsense. We have to talk real facts about who we are, what we do, what our dreams are, our ups and downs, and that's what's actually going to make this thing grow. When people see like the whole point of Opera is that we have real stories Well, not real stories, but we have stories about real human emotions. I should say they're not real people.
Christos Makridis:Some of them are, but it's real.
Soula Parassidis:really, there's themes that have been happening throughout history. They're pictures of the highest heights of human experience and emotion. They're beautiful and they will transform lives, but we have to be that friendly face that invites people into the fold, and that's basically my call to action for all the artists who are watching. Yes, these are the facts on the ground, but the truth is that we can make it change.
Soula Parassidis:Exactly, and that's what we're trying to do, so, okay, I feel like it's a good, unless you have something more to say I feel like that's a good point to like. Yeah, I think there's one part that we really want to oh, please, please, please, let me have a sip of my coffee, and you make your point.
Christos Makridis:Yeah, yeah, go on. One of the points that you made, and I think this is a call to action that dovetails really nicely, oh good.
Christos Makridis:Please, a double dovetail call to action. See, dovetail is another bonus in here. Dovetail is a Business turn. Yeah, exactly. Oh man, yeah.
Christos Makridis:So I think the use of like technology like being reflective on what tools do I have in my vicinity? And so I have a smartphone, I have friends, I'm in a city, and so what can you do with what you have to help other people and to uplift people and to share information? And so what you said around, just like being for others and helping other people and just doing something, like you need to do something. You always have to be in movement, and so then the question is what tools do you have at your disposal to augment that so it's as effective as possible?
Christos Makridis:And what you've done with the Instagram channel and with social media in general is just a demonstration of it. Doesn't matter what people are saying, because back when you started and when you and Norm just started going live, it was like people were puzzled by like, what's this Instagram that you speak of? And so now it's normalized, instagram is normalized, and I think whatever pushback you might get, if you have a conviction of I need to, if by doing this I'm going to help other people, you do it and the proof will be in the pudding. The fruit will show eventually.
Soula Parassidis:Well, the other thing too is like fine, you can criticize me, I'm going to outwork you.
Christos Makridis:I'm going to put higher quality stuff, more content.
Soula Parassidis:I'm not stopping so you know, what I'm saying, it's just like okay. And the other thing is, if you don't have haters at all, you're not doing it right. Yeah. So haters are going to hate.
Christos Makridis:They're going to do it.
Soula Parassidis:That's just the way it is. No, but I mean, it's just like. Again, that goes back to the intent of your heart and why on earth you're doing stuff. You know it's. It's hilarious to me to think that, um well, should I go down this road, I'll go down it for one second. It's hilarious to me to to think that, uh, we would use these tools for some like measure of of of fame and Norman and I are going to talk about this in another episode but just this idea of like being famous as a as an opera singer oh God, I just went there, okay. I'm doing it. The story continues.
Soula Parassidis:No, but it's just because, like I mean, for those who don't follow me on Instagram, that's absolutely fine and you don't have to, I think you should, but I created a character on there called the famous opera singer, and one of the factors of it is the irony that the idea of being, you know, world famous as an opera singer we haven't really had that to the same extent since Pavarotti and our business Crucified Pavarotti man, I'm really going to get some stuff for this, it's okay.
Christos Makridis:Well, I mean, I think this is an important conversation to have and it's like you can't really avoid it because this is part of the growth strategy and the solution is confronting this part of the sector. That yeah, as you said.
Soula Parassidis:Oh, I didn't want to go there today, but it's yeah, just the idea that to have real influence you do have to have some sort of measure of notoriety.
Christos Makridis:But how is?
Soula Parassidis:it going to come? And where is it going to come from If it's just like an internal feedback loop all the time, all the time, all the time, from the same people who already agree with you? How does that grow the sector?
Christos Makridis:And so these are things that we're actively thinking about that just grows to like the 1% I know yeah.
Soula Parassidis:So we're at 1% growth and if we keep talking to each other it could be 1.2. No, we want to get to that sweet 4% growth rate. We want to get to that 10%. We need to Come on.
Christos Makridis:I mean, operas are more visually and audibly appealing than a plot.
Soula Parassidis:I think, so.
Christos Makridis:So I think we have some momentum behind us and a history behind us. So no, I mean, I think just coming full circle is that while the statistics are not particularly optimistic, there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic are not particularly optimistic. There are a lot of reasons to be optimistic, and when we look back on seminal thinkers and thought leaders in this space going back to Pavarotti and others of that caliber you see how they created a way, and so it's up to Well, to be fair, Pavarotti was a singer, yeah well, of course, but he had people behind him who created a way, yeah, and he had help.
Christos Makridis:That's another thing.
Soula Parassidis:Pavarotti was a singer, yeah of course, but he had people behind him who created a way yeah, and he had help.
Christos Makridis:That's another thing that you're suggesting.
Soula Parassidis:We'll see if this part like ends up in the episode or not. We'll decide. We'll see what mood I'm in when we're. If I'm in a feisty mood when we go to publish this. We'll just take a look and see. But no, I just really hope that this helped and we don't have it perfect. We're still growing and building ourselves, but we really are passionate about seeing things grow and change and we celebrate your wins. We're excited when you get a new contract, when you launch a new business, when you start that social media channel that you're afraid to start, or when you host your own concert in your local church or wherever it is. We think that's great and we want to see more of it, and you can be part of that positive tick up in the data, even if you don't live in wherever it is Missouri, yeah.
Christos Makridis:Missouri, Florida, South Arkansas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, South.
Soula Parassidis:Arkansas, it's sort of random, but no, we want to thank again the Bristol for hosting us. Subscribe to this channel if you haven't already, and we'll see you next time on Behind the Curtain. Thank you.
