Navigating the Business Side of Singing

In this Behind The Curtain episode, Soula Parassidis and Norman Reinhardt talk about the multifaceted realities of pursuing an opera career, especially regarding often overlooked financial aspects. By sharing personal experiences and shedding light on hidden costs, to goal of this episode is to empower aspiring artists to understand better what lies ahead, emphasizing hope and education.

• Exploring a young artist's question about the worth of pursuing opera 
• The complexity of measuring 'worth' in an artistic career 
• Discussing the realities of financial expectations in the arts 
• Highlighting costs that artists face beyond income received 
• The role and fees associated with agents 
• Importance of financial literacy for aspiring artists 
• How to navigate housing and travel expenses as a freelancer 
• Suggestions for developing multiple skill sets and interests 
• Encouragement and hope for young artists starting their journeys

Chapters

• 0:11 The Costs of Being an Artist
• 13:40 Financial Challenges for Freelance Artists
• 21:02 Financial Realities for Freelance Performers
• 34:37 Spreading Hope Through the Arts

Transcript

Soula Parassidis: 0:11

Welcome to Behind the Curtain. I'm Soula Parassidis.

Norman Reinhardt: 0:14

I'm Norman.

Soula Parassidis: 0:15

Hello.

Norman Reinhardt: 0:16

I'm Norm. Should I go with?

Soula Parassidis: 0:18

Norm.

Norman Reinhardt: 0:18

You're good.

Soula Parassidis: 0:20

And we're so excited to bring this episode to you because it's a topic that basically everybody talks about but nobody talks about.

Norman Reinhardt: 0:31

That's pretty much true. Right Everybody talks about it quietly. Yes, but nobody talks about it. I'm in the community.

Soula Parassidis: 0:37

But the reason I wanted to speak about this in this service Is this our first season of this. Can we say is this a season?

Norman Reinhardt: 0:42

I mean, in this particular version it's the first season. Yeah, all right, I don't know how many seasons technically we've had if you count the whole time.

Soula Parassidis: 0:51

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Norman Reinhardt: 0:52

Anyway, whatever.

Soula Parassidis: 0:52

Well, anyway, we want to do more. This has been a lot of fun. No, I had a question from a 14-year-old follower from Instagram and it's been rolling around in my mind for 48 hours and I don't fully know how to answer it, because the question was I'm 14 and I want to be an opera singer, and is it worth it? So, firstly, thank you for that question.

Norman Reinhardt: 1:18

Yes, that's amazing that you're 14 years old and want to be an opera singer. That is awesome.

Soula Parassidis: 1:22

Well, that's what I was going to say, because that's the age that I started.

Norman Reinhardt: 1:24

Yeah, it's extraordinary. I could barely tie my shoes at 14.

Soula Parassidis: 1:29

Come on. No, but it rolled around in my mind for several reasons. First of all, how can you answer a question like that? Because I kind of understood what they were asking. But there's also such a multifaceted answer to something like that Because you have to always imagine, when you embark on your life's journey, you don't always choose everything you're doing. You know, we've learned in other episodes about sort of like this providential hand that sort of pushes you and pulls you places, and we've experienced that For sure you and pulls you places, and we've experienced that. And so it's also really hard, the word worth in all of its complex meaning well worth it's.

Norman Reinhardt: 2:12

It's a little bit in the eye of the beholder, a little bit, yes yeah, yeah.

Soula Parassidis: 2:16

And so I remember when I because I also started at 14 uh, people say oh, if you want to make money, don't go into this business. Or if you want to do this, don't go into this business or whatever there was a lot of very easy sayings and I was like what do they mean by that?

Norman Reinhardt: 2:29

Yeah, sure.

Soula Parassidis: 2:29

What exactly am I getting myself into? I just love to sing.

Norman Reinhardt: 2:33

Yeah, that's why you do it, and that's why.

Soula Parassidis: 2:35

I wanted to do it, that's why you do it. Just to sort of quickly, quickly answer that question. If you should watch this episode. Who asked the question? Our dear 14 year old follower. If it's the thing you're supposed to do with your life, it will be worth it. But finding out if it is is a journey and it's not easy. And in terms of actual worth and so far as finances, stability and your, that is the topic for today.

Norman Reinhardt: 3:07

Awesome, because that's such an easy thing to talk about. No, but it's no, but that's a very good answer, that's a very good answer. I mean, that's really it.

Soula Parassidis: 3:17

I know that I could never accept that idea, that the whole idea of being a starving artist, that it just it no, I don't like that idea.

Norman Reinhardt: 3:26

I don't like it. I don't like it either, because that it also makes you a great artist like oh well, that's a whole other, that's a whole other conversation we can talk about?

Soula Parassidis: 3:34

no, no, no, but um, I I want us to talk about the costs of singing, the costs of being an artist. What's being passed on to the artist today that maybe isn't part of curricula, things that are unexpected, things that we experienced and things that are even new since we started Living Opera, and I asked you to sort of make notes and bring your perspective to it also. I mean, we could speak freely about it, but I know there's things that you definitely wanted to hit on in the episode today and I guess my first question is you're someone who, I mean you're a tenor. You had good management right away. You had great engagements right away. What surprised you about the financial life of being an artist? What surprised you the most?

Norman Reinhardt: 4:21

That I had no idea what I was doing.

Soula Parassidis: 4:23

Okay, if I'm completely honest.

Norman Reinhardt: 4:26

I mean real. That's absolutely a real answer. I mean I started doing this job and you know, being from a small town in North Carolina.

Soula Parassidis: 4:35

Shout out. Hickory, North Carolina. Shout out.

Norman Reinhardt: 4:37

Hickory, North Carolina. It's a great place. My father was a minister or a pastor, and then my mother was a schoolteacher. So and while I, you know, I had an aunt, the aunt that introduced me to classical music and specifically opera, and so I loved the music, but as far as context for what we do, Business and context for the business.

Soula Parassidis: 5:00

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 5:00

And context for all that. You know I had no idea about any of that and there was no way I could Right. It's not anybody's fault, it's just that's how it was.

Soula Parassidis: 5:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 5:10

And so when I started doing the job, when I was- 23, 22, 23, I started working. That was in the context of training, but it was still working. But there's still a covering on you at that point. Because you were at the Houston Grand Opera Studio, because you're with a theater and they're training you and they're teaching you certain things, but there's still a protection around you. But then once you start freelancing, then you just kind of have to go out and there you are.

Soula Parassidis: 5:47

So let me ask you a question because I know and that's the part I you know I wasn't. Right.

Norman Reinhardt: 5:52

Myself, other people are, I was not.

Soula Parassidis: 5:53

Are they?

Norman Reinhardt: 5:55

Some people are Okay.

Soula Parassidis: 5:56

Yeah, yeah yeah, so you did the Houston Grand Opera Studio for three years. It's obviously a modest salary there, whatever.

Norman Reinhardt: 6:03

But it was fine.

Soula Parassidis: 6:04

I mean, I had a salary, yeah, yeah yeah, but I want to point when you started freelancing, you had your first jobs in great theaters. Let's just dive into this Like was your housing paid for by the theater or did you have to pay for it yourself?

Norman Reinhardt: 6:17

Well, that's a good question, because there's always variation in this.

Soula Parassidis: 6:20

Sometimes your housing's paid for, sometimes it's not, I just mean your specific experience, mine.

Norman Reinhardt: 6:24

At the beginning let me think First year, yeah, I did.

Soula Parassidis: 6:39

It couldn't have been that bad if you don't remember, because I know like.

Norman Reinhardt: 6:43

Two of the five jobs the housing was paid for.

Soula Parassidis: 6:46

Okay.

Norman Reinhardt: 6:48

The other three I paid for the housing. Travel was paid for in those and that was it.

Soula Parassidis: 6:58

That's fine. I think it's relevant to think about this because I don't know other industries really outside of the creative industry, where this is even a topic. If you go on a business trip somewhere, let's say you're hired by a company, it is like crazy to anybody that I tell outside of our sector to say, and by the way, we're going to need you to get somewhere to live for the next six weeks and we're not covering it. It's like what are you talking about? You've hired me for a job and, by the way, I have to pay my mortgage or my rent at home. What?

Norman Reinhardt: 7:26

do you mean I made a whole list of costs?

Soula Parassidis: 7:28

Oh, I know you did, but I just want to set the stage for anybody who is going to encounter this episode. That's not an artist, that that is actually something that we face. Or an idea that, oh, we're just going to pay you a lump sum, but hey, by the way, you're going to pay your agent, your taxes, your housing, your incidentals like your per diem, everything out of your own fee, oh OK.

Soula Parassidis: 7:51

So it's weird how there's no industry standard and nobody talks about it, and nobody talks about it in school and there's a lot of fear around talking about it, and I just don't know why. Because it's just business, like it's literally just business at that point and we need to know what we're getting ourselves into because otherwise we incur a lot of frustration and difficulty along the way, because we just don't know what the expectations are. And so that's why for you, you were 26. I also didn't really know what to expect. I just remember immediately having this reaction because my background is different than yours.

Soula Parassidis: 8:27

I grew up my father having a small business, watching him as an entrepreneur building a business, how he did that. I remember him because I would help him in the business. I had access, like I could look at the business account, and he'd say I remember vividly it's just an example and, dad, I hope you don't kill me for this, but anyway, I remember one time there was like $10,000 in that account and he said Soula, don't look me for this, but anyway, I remember one time there was like $10,000 in that account and he said Soula. Don't look in that account and think that we actually have $10,000 for this project because I have to pay this company and that person and blah, blah, blah, and I was like it gave me the first context for business and how things actually work that there's going to be expenses and that while there's a lump sum in there right now, these various contractors have to be paid out of it, etc. So that gave me a different context for my professional life.

Soula Parassidis: 9:11

I actually didn't even know I literally didn't know, because my dad was an entrepreneur that people had something like what are benefits? Like what are they talking about? What's a 401k? What is that? What is it? What's that? Like, that's a thing you get paid. Like I didn't. I didn't get it because in my mind it was always like you have to seek out your own work, you get paid a contract, you get that money and then all this other stuff happens on the side Sure, bills get paid, whatever. So I didn't even know until later on that there was a different way to live. Sure.

Norman Reinhardt: 9:43

And that there's also another thing, a few things I thought about. Number one thing is that you said it's an interesting thing talking about industry standards. Is that because each country is its own market?

Soula Parassidis: 9:55

In opera.

Norman Reinhardt: 9:55

In opera.

Soula Parassidis: 9:56

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 9:57

Each of them have a standard.

Soula Parassidis: 9:59

Right.

Norman Reinhardt: 10:00

But it isn't across the board. No, like you know, you work in Germany, they have a way in which they work. You work in France, they have a way, and there will be variation.

Soula Parassidis: 10:11

But even within States, wherever it is, yeah, but even within a national market, there isn't a standard. I mean, we have to say that too.

Norman Reinhardt: 10:16

Yeah, so that was one thing. The other thing is going from that to the freelance artist lifestyle. Yes, is just weird yeah. To my camera there. See, I told you I'm going to point a lot in this one. Guys, Get ready.

Soula Parassidis: 10:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a weird lifestyle. Yeah, and you're not prepared for it and I wish.

Norman Reinhardt: 10:37

And there's not way really to Ultimately you can, because everybody's experience is different.

Soula Parassidis: 10:44

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 10:46

There's only so much you can prepare for anyway, right, but I know I don't know how much I was prepared, but I know that when I started doing it, I'm sure someone had told me something along the way, but what it felt like was that no one had told me anything.

Soula Parassidis: 11:03

Okay.

Norman Reinhardt: 11:07

And so, yeah, that's how it felt. Yeah, I'm sure that's not true actually, but that's how it felt.

Soula Parassidis: 11:15

But yeah, but I think just generally.

Norman Reinhardt: 11:18

I think it's getting better, but I think it is getting better for a very long time.

Soula Parassidis: 11:21

It's getting better um, just even socially, you know privately kind of things. It wasn't really allowed to speak about that kind of stuff. There were a lot of things that you had to be careful how you talked about certain things, yeah but I just even mean privately that we had different styles when we met.

Norman Reinhardt: 11:38

Yeah, for sure.

Soula Parassidis: 11:38

For example, I don't even remember when I first got a credit card. And I mean now, in this business, you wouldn't be able to survive without a credit card. How were you going to do your bookings? How were you going to do your bookings?

Norman Reinhardt: 11:50

How were you going to get your housing? How were you going to get your plane tickets?

Soula Parassidis: 11:52

I mean, I, I no, no, and, and and. That was something unheard of, because it was just sort of like I grew up in this way, where it was like when I ran out of money, I stopped doing things.

Norman Reinhardt: 11:59

Yeah.

Soula Parassidis: 12:01

And that was it, that's it.

Norman Reinhardt: 12:01

That's what that's, that's it.

Soula Parassidis: 12:03

Right, but that's now. I mean, I'm just thinking about I'm going to do my next engagement. I'm staying in a very expensive place for three months and that expense will be recuperated later, but right now it's living on credit.

Norman Reinhardt: 12:17

On front, up front.

Soula Parassidis: 12:18

Up front From us, you just go okay. So somewhere in here we need to have a transparent conversation about what artists are getting themselves into, because there's so much focus when we talk about business. What are the things that are okay to talk about? Oh, it's okay to talk about. Oh, you should probably have some social media channels so people know who you are.

Soula Parassidis: 12:38

Oh, it's okay to hire a publicist, sort of once you've reached a certain level of career which is kind of like for me, like backwards, because it's like, well, the reason you hire a publicist is so people know who you are. But okay, fine, we'll just wait until we're already known and then we're allowed to do that. I mean, it's quite strange and funny and to me, one of the things I noticed is the pandemic sort of gave an opening to sort of shake up the quote-unquote rules, although most people didn't end up taking that opportunity and things kind of stayed the same, yeah, and the thing that did change is that wages did decrease for artists and there isn't really a good, healthy conversation about how to recover.

Norman Reinhardt: 13:22

Yeah, I mean, I think we're definitely still reeling from that. It takes longer than two years. It's going to take a lot of years toeling from that. It takes longer than two years. It's going to take a lot of years to recover from that. I find it interesting that people aren't talking about that more. There are people having the conversations, but I don't know who they are, or where they're doing it.

Soula Parassidis: 13:46

We think they're having them. I'm sure they are.

Norman Reinhardt: 13:49

I'm hoping that they are. I'm being positive about this and saying somebody's having a conversation about it, but it is interesting that you don't just bounce back from something like that.

Soula Parassidis: 14:02

No, it's a major disruption.

Norman Reinhardt: 14:03

We have to talk about these things. And it has to be all right to talk about these things. And it has to be all right to talk about these things because and at least I can say for us we're not talking about these things so that we can just kind of complain and be negative and all that. That's not the point. The point of speaking about these issues is that we want to talk about them from a hopeful position, and a position that says we can change them and they can get better.

Soula Parassidis: 14:30

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 14:31

That's what we're trying to do, absolutely. So when you talk about, you know, if I'm just sitting here complaining about how much money people make and I'm not trying to find a solution to it, then why are we doing this?

Soula Parassidis: 14:42

Oh yeah, you know what I mean. That's just a waste of time, because then everybody's just complaining.

Norman Reinhardt: 14:44

We've got enough of that going on right now anyway.

Soula Parassidis: 14:47

Let's just shift the gears of this episode and talk about that. That's a whole other episode. No, but I mean, I think that it's like we have a responsibility as people with a platform and with some sort of following to say like, hey, just so you know, you're going to incur this expense or these kind of experiences and that it's okay.

Norman Reinhardt: 15:06

Yeah, and it's okay to be frustrated by it or freaked out by it, or whatever it is. Another thing that you're supposed to do is anything negative. You're not supposed to either feel it or acknowledge it. Oh, that's cool, which is hilarious. How are you supposed to?

Soula Parassidis: 15:19

express it on stage if you can't feel it or acknowledge it privately. Yeah, that's it.

Norman Reinhardt: 15:22

I mean all this stuff you're supposed to suppress as a performer.

Soula Parassidis: 15:26

Yeah, that's weird, which?

Norman Reinhardt: 15:29

is really the logic in that is profound.

Soula Parassidis: 15:32

Yeah, but I mean it's funny in the end because I actually wonder in the end, because I don't think anybody would be disappointed or upset that this conversation is happening, and happening even in this forum, but it is funny how we'll self-regulate. Okay, I think that.

Norman Reinhardt: 15:44

Yeah, I do. I throw qualifiers in.

Soula Parassidis: 15:48

I know you do self-regulate. Okay, I think that. Yeah, I do, I throw qualifiers in.

Norman Reinhardt: 15:50

I do it all the time I'll throw a qualifier in to benefit of the doubt or just to make sure it's positive, or whatever.

Soula Parassidis: 15:54

Okay, well, let me do one here, just so everybody understands our heart. Our heart is to see our sector grow, thrive, change, expand, multiply and become huge beyond our wildest dreams. But we have to talk about the hard thing first, and that's just how life is. So let's pull out your notebook and talk about the hard thing.

Norman Reinhardt: 16:12

I'm going both cameras, both cameras. See, this is wide, this is right on me Nice, nice, nice.

Soula Parassidis: 16:17

Okay, Now all right.

Norman Reinhardt: 16:19

So all right. So basically I wrote down. Can I say something too?

Soula Parassidis: 16:22

I had major fear, Even though I grew up around business, when I started being responsible for my own business.

Soula Parassidis: 16:29

you know, what we meant. I had so much fear around this, literally, like, really even to the point of trauma Super scared, I was really afraid of money and how to direct money and how to command it to do things, because that's really what you have to do, you have to like, and I think what happened for me personally is not having the knowledge about what was going to be expected and then feeling like I was in chaos all the time because an expense would crop up here or there that I didn't know I was responsible for. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to bury my head in the sand because I just don't know I was responsible for. And I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna bury my head in the sand because I just don't know what's next. And it's only now, having built living opera, where I feel more excited about the idea of having finances of any kind, to say like, oh, wow, okay, instead of being afraid of this, I take care of this thing over here.

Soula Parassidis: 17:25

But now I can tell this hundred dollars to do this or this, thousand euros to do this or this, 1,000 euros to do this or this 10,000 euros to do this. I can direct it this way and I don't have to be afraid anymore and that actually allows more of it to channel into the things that I want to do. But if I have fear, it is a tremendous block because I actually don't and I can do better, like I'm still learning. But you know, the thing is you, um, you've had some of that as well, but, um, I feel like you've done a good job in at least not um, buckling under the pressure, even if it's been hard of everything. That's expected and that's something that I've had to learn just to not be, because I think people think, oh, people think probably that I wouldn't experience that. But I say that's been a real weakness of mine where I've had to overcome so I can actually build the platform and do what we're called to do.

Norman Reinhardt: 18:18

And it's been a journey for me. Yeah, yeah, and that's how I mean, but that you know, if it's not for everybody, you know if it's not one thing, it's another, we, if it's not for everybody. If it's not one thing, it's another. We all have to overcome our own fears, whatever they are.

Soula Parassidis: 18:31

We talked about you having performance anxiety, so for me I never had trouble with on stage.

Norman Reinhardt: 18:38

You run out there. It's fantastic. I wish I could do it. I can't.

Soula Parassidis: 18:43

No, but see my own struggles happened more in the private arena and not feeling like I had any place that was safe, or to learn how to be a person.

Norman Reinhardt: 18:52

Yeah.

Soula Parassidis: 18:52

Because I was always a performer since I was a very small child.

Norman Reinhardt: 18:55

Yeah, but how do you?

Soula Parassidis: 18:56

learn how to be a person Well finance is a huge there it is.

Norman Reinhardt: 18:58

Finance is Well, that's a fantastic question, that's an episode.

Soula Parassidis: 19:10

How do you learn to be a person? But finance is a huge part Of how you live. You know what's funny. You know what I love about people being like Can you just sing for free? It's like I can't.

Norman Reinhardt: 19:22

Okay, real quick Public service announcement out there for the group.

Soula Parassidis: 19:26

Oh, we got a PSA.

Norman Reinhardt: 19:27

Stop asking singers to sing for free. Hallelujah and musicians to perform for free. Preach Stop it Go. It is disrespectful. Yes, it is dishonorable and we would never return it to you. So stop doing it and don't cut this out.

Soula Parassidis: 19:43

It's staying in.

Norman Reinhardt: 19:44

Hallelujah. I'm serious, it's staying in.

Soula Parassidis: 19:45

Hallelujah chorus in the sidelines.

Norman Reinhardt: 19:47

Stop doing it. Ilya and Madalena are still here. Hallelujah. If anybody else offered a service, you would not do it for free, unless it was a very specific circumstance. So stop doing it to artists.

Soula Parassidis: 19:57

That's right.

Norman Reinhardt: 19:58

Anyway, let's move on.

Soula Parassidis: 19:59

Let's move on. Pull out the black book, baby. Okay. Pull out the black book of finance. All right, let's go. Black Book of Finance All right, let's go. Sorry, I got into church mode all of a sudden. I'm ready to go.

Norman Reinhardt: 20:08

All right, all right, church mode, all right. So basically, what I wrote down are and this is it's not maybe the funnest list ever in our lives, but here we go. So I just basically wrote down things that once you get out of education and once you get out of training, you're probably going to have to pick up the tab for what this list is as a freelance artist as a freelance artist You're going to have to pay for these things and just for context, the date is March 22nd 2024.

Soula Parassidis: 20:46

As of March 22nd 2024. As of March 22nd, these are the costs associated.

Norman Reinhardt: 20:50

These are the costs that you'll have to work with in some form, but after this episode it's going to be so revolutionary, so transformational, that this will be a historical moment where this doesn't happen anymore. We'll put this in actually real quick story. In Valencia, in one of the cathedrals there, they have the Holy Grail. Next to the Grail and it's in a little box and when this is over, we will put this next to the Holy Grail. I'm sorry, that is true, though, about the Valencia and the Holy Grail thing, Great, great.

Soula Parassidis: 21:22

If you want to go see it, Okay, hit us with a little bit.

Norman Reinhardt: 21:23

So all right Now so this is after education, after training, All right, you start going freelance. Number one you're studying. Whatever arias you're doing, If you want to go through the diction, you've got to find somebody to help you with the different languages, that kind of stuff. Then you're going to have to pay for your travel to get there. You're going to have to pay for your housing once you're there and then you're going to have to pay for your food. And if you're doing a tour, then you have to do that in every place you go Can.

Soula Parassidis: 21:58

I tell you something that most people don't know.

Norman Reinhardt: 22:00

Yes.

Soula Parassidis: 22:01

That is a now problem. It didn't used to be like that that's right.

Norman Reinhardt: 22:05

That is true. That didn't used to be that way. It is now an issue.

Soula Parassidis: 22:09

The cost is now passed on to the artist, but it used to be that if an opera house invited you for an audition, they would pick up the cost. That's before our generation.

Norman Reinhardt: 22:17

I just know that from older I never experienced that.

Soula Parassidis: 22:19

From older singers who told me I experienced it one time when somebody oh, I experienced it once. From that generation. I did yeah From that generation said hey, could you come back for a callback? We want you to sing for the conductor. And they picked up the cost of my ticket, but only my ticket. Yeah, yeah, but that's just so people know.

Norman Reinhardt: 22:37

I'm not sure how long it's been like this but certainly for all of our lives, all of our careers. Yeah, I was that way. Okay, so then you have. If you have an agent, then you have to pay your agent fees. If you don't have an agent, then you go back to auditions and you are paying for auditions for agents. Thank you for that.

Soula Parassidis: 23:02

But agent fees are paid on the gross.

Norman Reinhardt: 23:05

They're paid on the gross. So when you get a contract, the fee that is the gross fee that's in the contract. It will be from 10% to 20%, generally, somewhere on that spectrum.

Soula Parassidis: 23:16

Industry standard is 10%, 12. Half percent and then for concerts it can be 15 to 20 percent, depending on the agreement you have with your agent, and that's off the gross, which means the the agreed upon amount. So if your contract is for 10 000 euros, it's like 10 percent of that.

Norman Reinhardt: 23:32

Yeah, so that's just for and some agents have retainers, monthly retainers that's that's mostly prevalent in the united States, isn't it A? Little bit in the UK, I think.

Soula Parassidis: 23:44

But the retainer fee is something it's not much.

Norman Reinhardt: 23:46

It's not a huge retainer.

Soula Parassidis: 23:47

But it's, something.

Norman Reinhardt: 23:48

But it is something. Then you're going to have role preparation so you're learning whatever it is. Take your pick so you learn the role you need, your voice teacher and your coach, and then, of course, if you need language stuff, I think it's interesting to differentiate, because in the acting world usually they want you to come and you haven't learned the role, but in opera.

Soula Parassidis: 24:11

You're expected to come with the role fully prepared, and actually we mainly sing lead roles. But I've wondered sometimes in the past when I've had to sing some maybe smaller roles do I need to learn everything that I'm not in? What if something happens? And that's something that I thought about. But generally industry standard is you have to come knowing everything. Basically, perfectly.

Norman Reinhardt: 24:34

Yeah, you want to know. Yeah, there are definitely people who have made exceptions to that rule. That's also another story. Yes, and then you'll have your taxes. So generally when you go to another country, they have the taxes that they take out from the gross and then, wherever you live depending on how that works for the country that you live in then you'll have the taxes to deal with there.

Soula Parassidis: 25:02

So you'll always have that double situation. So basically it's like did you do it for an amount of money to do a cost breakdown?

Norman Reinhardt: 25:08

I didn't do a cost breakdown. I didn't know how long we wanted the episode to be.

Soula Parassidis: 25:11

Okay, that's fine, but I mean, I think it's relevant because I'm still thinking about that 14-year-old that's like is this worth it for me? So it's like, can we do it quickly? I mean, I don't want to get the math totally wrong, but basically, let's say there's a $10,000 contract. Sure, let's say you have a 10% agent fee. Let's not make it crazy 10%.

Norman Reinhardt: 25:29

Great, okay, lovely.

Soula Parassidis: 25:36

And then let's say you're working in Switzerland. So for an American working in Germany, how much withholding tax are they going to take from your contract? 34% 34% and that's with like a form and everything that's with your A1 form or in the States, you have Social Security. Okay, you have, yeah, so right off the top 34% of that 10K is gone. Your agent fee $1,000 is gone and hopefully, if a contract is that size, they've paid for your housing.

Norman Reinhardt: 26:03

Usually in a case like that, your housing would be paid for and your travel would be paid for. There is generally a standard on if a fee has to reach a certain level before, and if it's below that level, then they'll pay for certain things.

Soula Parassidis: 26:21

But nevertheless you're still taxed on that full amount, even if you're paying housing.

Norman Reinhardt: 26:24

so it's like you know it's okay yeah what's, you know, disappointing let me put it that way is let's say, they pay for your housing at $10,000, but at $11,000 they don't.

Soula Parassidis: 26:37

Right, right. It's like oh crap, why does it have to be there for six weeks? You know?

Norman Reinhardt: 26:41

it's not, you know. Yeah, anyway, and the length of an opera contract is typically between four and eight weeks.

Soula Parassidis: 26:49

Yeah, four is very short. It's typically more between six and eight.

Norman Reinhardt: 26:52

Four is a good length of time, depending on the piece. It's great, yeah, yeah.

Soula Parassidis: 26:56

No, but I mean so it's just. It's just, people know like this is this is sort of part of the expectation of what you're going to be expected to carry and, um, you know, and the other thing is, if they don't pay your housing, you are expected to arrange that yourself and pay for it upfront at least a deposit, but usually in full, before you arrive and before you get paid. And sometimes you won't get paid, you know, 30 until 30 days after the contract is finished, and so you're holding up that cost. It's just. It's just something for you to know about, not to be afraid, but just so you have the information. Yep, I don't know if that was in your book or not.

Norman Reinhardt: 27:25

That's very good, that's absolutely true. Um and then um, then you'll have. Sometimes you'll have. They may give you a rehearsal fee. Yeah, depends on where you are, they can do rehearsal fees. So you'll have to balance some version of travel housing rehearsal fee generally.

Soula Parassidis: 27:46

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 27:47

It'll be on the spectrum, depending on the contract, and then while all of that's happening.

Soula Parassidis: 27:52

Yes, you probably live somewhere where your house is.

Norman Reinhardt: 27:57

Yes, generally people do Many people live is yes, generally people do, many people live somewhere, generally Interesting guys. Maybe you live somewhere too.

Soula Parassidis: 28:04

You know, sometimes the thing that's really hard as an artist is you might get an offer for a job and you run those numbers and I won't say where. But one time we had to cancel a job for you because we realized we were going to be in the negative after everything we had to pay for yeah, and that was really hard to do, but it was just like we literally couldn't. We literally couldn't afford for him to do the job because of the nature of the contract and because of our expenses at home, and it just we were going to be. I don't remember how much we were going to be in the negative, but it was just like oh yeah, we can't do this.

Norman Reinhardt: 28:33

Um, I have another one for the camera. We may cut this one. Pay to sings Really, 20-year-olds Pay to sing. Stop it.

Soula Parassidis: 28:47

All right.

Norman Reinhardt: 28:47

Stop it, stop it. Get your lives together. Dang, I think we're going to cut that one.

Soula Parassidis: 28:53

All right, very good, but anyway, go ahead. You can be frustrated, sorry about that. Hang on. So we've laid out a lot of facts today, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what do you think, as somebody now who's been doing this for a lot of years? How can somebody who's 14,?

Soula Parassidis: 29:18

I mean, I gave a philosophical answer at the very beginning. But with these current industry facts, how can somebody who's 14 decide? Because what's funny about it is, I remember being that age and having to decide because the stuff I was electing to take in high school in Canada was either gearing me up for one kind of a degree or another. So the decisions I was making at 14 were determining what I would study in school.

Soula Parassidis: 29:46

You, know, in my early 20s, and so how can they make the best decision and how can they actually go forward in this profession when it does seem that people are even being priced out at certain levels?

Norman Reinhardt: 29:59

Yeah, well, I mean number one. I think there are many ways that it can be worth it. First of all, that it can be worth it First of all if you love it, if you love to sing, if you love to perform. That's a huge indicator, because a lot of people do get caught. Maybe they're talented, but that doesn't mean they want to do something. It just means they're good at it. There are ways that it absolutely is worth it. You can make a living doing this. People will go. You can make a living doing this. Absolutely.

Norman Reinhardt: 30:45

It's just understanding how certain things work. That's really one of the biggest obstacles is just understanding how things work. So one I would say is and I would say this to anybody, not just our 14-year-old viewer educate yourself with financial literacy. Yes, educate yourself with financial literacy. Yes, educate yourself in financial literacy so that you understand that money is a tool and it is there for you to empower. It's something that can empower you Also as you develop and as you get. So, as you develop and as you get, don't be afraid to search or discover all of the things that are inside of you. You may be a singer, you may love to perform, but I will bet that you'll also have things that are in you that you love as well, that you're also good at. Don't be afraid to pursue those things too. And I'm not saying give up performing or singing to go do those other things. All I'm saying is everything that you possess is a tool. Everything that is in you is there for a reason. It is there to make your life better. It is there to build you up. It is there to build others up.

Norman Reinhardt: 32:14

One of the biggest things about what is so important about being a performer is that you are actually in service for somebody else. The point of me being a performer or me singing is not so. I just feel nice about myself. Now. It's a wonderful thing that we get to do and we're very blessed to be able to do it. But part of the reason we're blessed to do it is because I get to help somebody else. I get to give somebody else the gift of something, and that is an extraordinary thing and that is of great value. That is of great importance because it feeds somebody else of great value. That is of great importance because it feeds somebody else.

Norman Reinhardt: 32:55

And so don't be afraid to and take your time. This isn't like something I go oh, here it is. And that's not what I mean. Those things will show themselves over time, but allow yourself to go on those journeys, allow yourself to process all of the things and you'll discover them along the way. Some stuff will pop up and you're like where did that come from? I didn't even know I could do that, and so really just allow yourself to do that while you're looking at singing or some other kind of performance, whatever it is. I'm a person that believes you do need to focus, you do need to concentrate, you have to work hard, but at the same time, you can pursue other things. You don't have to just stick and go oh uh-uh-uh, go oh uh-uh-uh. I think that we just have that capacity Absolutely, and also always be hopeful, be optimistic, be positive. However, you come to those conclusions, but understand that good things can happen, great things can happen, and you can be the person that brings a good thing into the world, absolutely.

Norman Reinhardt: 34:24

That brings a good thing into the earth for what you do. So those are some of the things that come to me right now.

Soula Parassidis: 34:31

Yeah.

Norman Reinhardt: 34:32

There are more. That's very well, are more, but I need more time. Probably I'm not fast enough, so I apologize.

Soula Parassidis: 34:37

You know, I think that hope is. One of the hardest. Is it a commodity?

Norman Reinhardt: 34:45

I think it's a commodity To come by right now.

Soula Parassidis: 34:49

But I think that if we embrace that multifaceted calling that you've just described, that we can spread a lot more hope around to people that maybe we would never have come in contact with.

Soula Parassidis: 35:01

And I think it's part of our responsibility as artists, because we actually, I believe that the arts has this tremendous ability to heal and that's why we need a healthy workforce, so the healers can go out and do their job, and that's why it's important to have these transparent conversations. And one thing I wanted to say just in closing is so this is one of our first experiences producing. This past season, we've been producers for the first time and I know for myself for example, inviting Maddalena to come and play that it filled me with immense joy to be able to do that, to create that, and I think that, again, opera companies, schools, orchestras, actually everyone's doing what they can do.

Soula Parassidis: 35:49

And I just know for me on the producer side of things that I was just so excited and proud that we could even make something happen, and I think that's actually the spirit that everybody's operating in, and sometimes it feels like, oh, I'm an artist, I'm getting the short end of the stick, but it's just like we all have the resources that we have and I think if we could think more holistically and generously with one another as artists and producers and now us as artist producers and think always try to think the best of people's intentions, even if they have ill intent.

Soula Parassidis: 36:27

It's really exhausting to always go through life thinking that somebody means you harm, and even if they do, it's irrelevant, because if you are doing the thing that you were purposed to do, they can basically shoot themselves in the foot trying to stop you, and they won't. So I guess you know we always like to end with sort of a call to action just go and do the thing you know you're called to do and allow it to change over time, and you will have a very exciting life and then maybe it will be worth it for you. Yeah, so yeah.

Soula Parassidis: 36:57

I guess. Oh, I didn't thank the Bristol for hosting us, so thank you one last time to the Bristol. We feel so spoiled. We've come to the end of this shooting and we're going to enjoy these amazing chocolates, and we've all been eyeing them.

Norman Reinhardt: 37:12

We've had to like have a lot of self-control, but they were so beautifully done.

Soula Parassidis: 37:16

So thank you so much to the Bristol Vienna, and I think that's a wrap on the first season of Behind the Curtain. And I'm Soula Parasitis.

Norman Reinhardt: 37:25

I'm Norman Reinhart.

Soula Parassidis: 37:26

Thank you so much for being here.